Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question today is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Minister, I understand that you are putting the final touches on a plan that will have the National Parole Board take over the responsibilities of the Ontario Board of Parole. Why are you jeopardizing public safety for the sake of saving dollars?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): We have a responsibility, and it's interesting to note that when the Leader of the Opposition responded in the budget debate, he was critical that we hadn't looked at every single item in our ministries. We are looking at every single item in our ministries to see if in fact we can provide better service for the people of Ontario without in any way minimizing safety. That decision has not been made, but we are looking at everything in our ministry, because we have a very large program delivery ministry. Just so the member will know, the three largest expenditures made by program delivery are the teachers' pension plan and OPSEU's pension plan, correctional service and the OPP. Those are the three major program delivery parts of the government. I have an obligation, as the minister, to take a look at two of those three, to make sure that we are getting value for money and doing what is right for the people of Ontario.

Mr. Dunlop: Minister, I've been informed by staff within your ministry that about 50% of the offenders who go before the National Parole Board for hearings are released, whereas about 14% to 15% of offenders are released after the hearings at the provincial parole board. Clearly, they have been much more lenient at the federal level.

Minister, we have many examples of National Parole Board mistakes. We could ask the family of Christopher Stephenson, who was brutally murdered by Joseph Fredericks, and ask the family of parole officer Louise Pargeter, who was brutally murdered by Eli Ulayuk just last fall; or how about Douglas Moore, who is the prime suspect in the deaths of René Charlebois and Robert Grewal? Minister, we have many other examples of errors and blunders by the National Parole Board. This is a very serious community safety issue.

Minister, how are you going to assure this House and the families of Ontario that your $3-million savings won't end up in tragic blunders by the National Parole Board?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: Again, the member is predicting that this is going to happen. That decision has not been made. But I think it's also important that you can't compare one with the other. The provincial correctional service houses those offenders who have been sentenced to two years less a day. There are no murderers in there; there are none of these people who are there. These are people who, on average, serve 54 days of their sentence, which means that very, very few of them even appear before parole boards. Most of them are on probation as opposed to parole. So to compare one with the other isn't reasonable and it isn't responsible.

I can tell you that nothing will be done in this ministry unless it protects the public safety and it makes sense from a taxpayer's point of view.