Mr.
Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville):
My question is for the Premier. Premier, your
Liberal government has announced that 1,000 new
police officers will be hired --
Applause.
Mr. Runciman: It is certainly
an announcement to be applauded, but the government
has reannounced it seven times over the past
29 months, and not one officer is on the beat
today. I don't hear any applause for that. Can
the Premier explain why that is the case?
Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister
of Research and Innovation): I'm pleased
to be able to report that we have received a
very positive response on the part of Ontario
municipalities who are submitting applications
for these 1,000 police officers, including,
as I understand it, applications to fund 400
police officers who are presently on the job.
I'm sure that my friend opposite will want to
keep that in mind as we move forward.
May I say as well that I'm very pleased that
to date, although we don't pretend to have all
the answers when it comes to dealing with the
issue of crime anywhere in the province of Ontario,
I want to congratulate the Attorney General
for the announcement he made earlier today and
the way that he has been able to further strengthen
our guns and gangs task force by adding 26 senior
police officers and 32 additional crown prosecutors.
Mr. Runciman: They're telling
us that of the 1,000, 400 are already on the
job. So we're down to 600 new police officers,
I guess.
Premier, your Attorney General announced 55
days ago that a gun amnesty program was being
created by your government. Today, he said of
that program, "Just trust us; it's coming
soon." Your Attorney General also announced
55 days ago an improved witness protection program
for people who come forward to shed light on
a gun crime. Today, he said, "Just trust
us; it's coming soon." It is the same story
with the 1,000 new police officers -- I guess
it's now 600 -- that you have announced an incredible
seven times, with predictable results: zero
new police officers on the streets.
Premier, why should Ontarians "just trust"
you when you so clearly demonstrated your commitment
to fighting gun crime is no commitment at all?
Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Let me
take this opportunity to tell you a bit more
about the success being enjoyed by our guns
and gangs task force, which was originally created
by the Attorney General in January 2004.
The good work of the prosecutors and police
involved on that task force has led to three
separate major investigations and three major
results: Project Impact led to 65 gang arrests
and 275 charges; Project Pathfinder led to 16
gang arrests and over 100 charges; and more
recently, in September of this year, Project
Flicker led to 54 arrests and over 1,200 charges.
What we're talking about here is the result
of the funding already in place and the work
already done: 135 gang arrests, 1,575 charges.
I call that moving the yardstick forward. It's
not everything, but we're moving in the right
direction.
Mr. Runciman: Mr. Speaker,
your Attorney General likes to claim credit
for everything but the weather. The reality
is that the Toronto police formed that task
force in 2002.
I want to ask you about your government's sincerity
in terms of its commitment to public safety.
I'd call it a phony front, a shell game, driven
by political polls. You have to take a look
at the considerable cuts that this government
is considering: over $300 million in cuts to
the justice system; the parole board -- we've
already heard about that, transferring it to
the federal system with a horrific record; closing
jails; pre-charge diversion -- can you believe
it; dismantling the Criminal Injuries Compensation
Board. That's the sort of public safety commitment
they have.
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I ask the Premier today to clarify for all of
us -- he's telling us he's so concerned about
public safety -- is your government, are you
personally, considering these draconian cuts
to the justice ministries? Clarify that, yes
or no.
Hon. Mr. McGuinty: No, we're
not, but let me just say something. If bombast
were the prerequisite to eliminating crime in
Ontario, then we would have no crime on the
streets of Ontario after seven years of Tory
government. But the fact of the matter is, that
former government did more than its fair share
of sowing the seeds for the issues we've got
to grapple with today.
Just to remind my friends opposite, in addition
to our commitment to put 1,000 more police officers
on the streets of Ontario, in addition to the
expansion of the work being done by our guns
and gangs task force, we have put in place 34
new judges, 50 new crown attorneys, 55 probation
officers, and we continue to press the federal
government for mandatory minimum sentences for
all gun crimes. The fact of the matter is that
we're working as hard as we can to pick up where
they dropped the ball.
The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown):
New question?
Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North):
My question is for the Minister of
Community Safety and Correctional Services.
It's interesting to note that at today's press
conference you indicated that 26 police officers
will be added to the guns and gangs task force.
It is my understanding that the officers are
not part of the 1,000 new police officers, but
will be redirected from other police services
such as York, Durham, the RCMP and possibly
the OPP. Minister, you can give this House a
breakdown on exactly where those 26 police officers
will be coming from?
Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community
Safety and Correctional Services):
The member will know that when we announced
our 1,000 police officers program, we said that
500 of them would be used for community policing
and 500 would be used for six defined areas
that we're going to address, one of which is
guns and gangs. What has happened is that the
announcement was made by the Attorney General
today that we are going to put 26 additional
experienced officers into the guns and gangs
task force, and we are going to provide $500,000
in bridge financing. But when this program is
fully implemented, they in fact will be in those
1,000 officers. That's how it works.
Mr. Dunlop: Thank you, Minister,
but your Premier already mentioned that you've
hired 400. That's what he just said. Minister,
will your ministry be compensating the already
understaffed police services of York, Durham,
Peel, Toronto, the RCMP and the OPP for the
loss of manpower due to the officers being redirected
to work on the guns and gangs task force? Who
will be paying the salaries of these officers
from the other police services who will be working
on the guns and gangs task force? Just who is
going to be paying the bill? That's what I'm
asking you.
Hon. Mr. Kwinter: I'd like
to use this opportunity to explain these 400
officers. We said that we would provide, during
our mandate, 1,000 net new officers. That means
we would use October 23, 2003, as the benchmark.
Every police service replaces officers every
year. They do it for attrition, resignations,
transfers, deaths and retirements. So we've
said to them, "As of October 23, 2003,
any net new officers that you provide we will
fund to a formula of 400 for that particular
sector, 60 for officers in the north and the
other 540 for new officers."
What is happening is that these officers who
are going to be seconded, effectively, to this
task force will come out of that pool, but we're
starting that immediately because these are
experienced officers we want to put to work
today. That's what we're doing.
Mr. Dunlop: That's a good
answer.
Interjections.
Mr. Dunlop: It's typical Liberal
math at work.
In response to a media poll that shows residents
of Toronto think that crime is the number one
issue, the message from your government today
is, "Just trust us. Our answer is coming
soon." The problem is, all we see from
you on the file is dithering and foot-dragging:
no new police officers, despite seven announcements;
no new police officers to fight gun crime, merely
a shuffling of officers from one department
to another; no action or pressing your federal
cousins in Ottawa for tougher sentencing to
keep violent criminals off the streets in the
first place; and finally, your mandate to cut
$300 million from the justice ministries.
Minister, why have you failed to keep our communities
as safe as they possibly can be?
Hon. Mr. Kwinter: The Premier
has already indicated to you the success we've
had with our guns and gangs strategy. You should
also know that these police officers we're talking
about -- there seems to be a perception on that
side of the House that I have a warehouse full
of officers and I'm just waiting to send them
to different places.
We are providing funding. We said we would provide
that funding during the mandate of our government,
and we've made that commitment. We've increased
the number for your community policing program
from a maximum of $30,000 per officer to a maximum
of $35,000 an officer. We've taken 60 officers
in the north and said we're going to provide
them with $70,000 an officer, and we're going
to make it retroactive for those 400 officers
who have been hired and are on the street.
This is a funding program that has the co-operation
of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police.
They helped us to design it. They are fully
supportive --
The Speaker: Thank you. New
question.
Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River):
The question is for the Premier. The
number of homicides in Toronto this year now
stands at 64, most of them young adults. Young
people who live in the neighbourhoods afflicted
by this violence have told you and your government
what must be done to end the violence. They
point to closed community centres, abandoned
after-school programs, and youth counsellors
and community outreach workers fired from schools.
And police, community agencies and organizations
like the Canadian Tamil Youth Development Centre
and Malvern Family Resource Centre agree with
the youth. They don't want more half measures,
they don't want more pilot projects; they want
the social and community investments that are
needed to deal with this violence. When is it
going to happen, Premier?
Hon. Mr. McGuinty: It is happening.
It's happening right now. For example, I've
had the opportunity to meet with the East Scarborough
Boys and Girls Club, I met with the Jamaican
Canadian Association, I had a very good briefing
from Operation Springboard and I met with the
representation on the part of the African community
coalition, together with Minister Chambers and
a number of other ministers. I've had a very
good discussion with all of these groups and
representatives. We talked about some of the
things we need to do together to ensure that
we are tackling head-on not only crime itself
but the causes of crime.
The member opposite will be very much aware
of some of the programs we've funded. We look
forward to continuing to work with these community
groups so that we can improve the levels of
support as we go forward.
Mr. Hampton: Many of these
youth organizations and community groups have
been meeting with your government for over two
years. They're tired of being consulted. They
want to see some action. They want to see something
beyond pilot projects and piecemeal short-term
funding.
For example, I met with Sharon Shelton, executive
director of Tropicana, and her staff. They were
very clear: Community agencies need long-term,
sustainable funding, not more pilot projects.
What they're getting from your government is
a trickle here, a trickle there and more short-term,
short funding. The Dixon Neighbourhood Youth
Centre was recently forced to stop their drop-in
program at the end of last summer. Why? Because
you had provided only short-term funding.
Premier, when are the people who are losing
their lives as a result of this violence going
to see action from your government rather than
pilot projects and press conferences?
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Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I just
want to draw to the attention of the member
opposite that when I met with those groups,
I did so out of the view of media, and it was
not the subject of press conferences.
Just let me tell you about one particular initiative
that we have moved ahead with, and that's this
whole notion of community use of schools. There
is a letter that was sent to the Honourable
Jim Watson, Minister of Health Promotion, from
Ilene Watt, executive director of Basketball
Ontario, and I want to quote from that letter,
where she wrote:
"I cannot thank you and your staff enough
for moving forward with the community use of
schools program. It has made an incredible difference
to the delivery of basketball programs by our
member clubs across the province. The seven
years of cutbacks in funding to the school system
by the previous government actually eroded the
number of children playing house league by an
estimated 10,000 as gym fees continued to rise....
Our sport has a strong appeal to lower-income
and new immigrant families whose national sport
is basketball, and it is very important to keep
this category of sport and physical activity
open and accessible to all."
We don't pretend to be purveyors of magic when
it comes to dealing with crime issues, but I
can tell you, we are very sincere in moving
ahead with the kinds of initiatives that make
up for lost ground under the previous government
and that meet the needs of young people as they
exist today.
Mr. Hampton: The Premier would
have people believe that basketball is the solution.
Let me tell you, the community organizations
I've met with have been very clear as well.
Basketball is one piece of a bigger puzzle.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Order. Stop the
clock. I need to be able to hear the leader
of the third party.
Mr. Hampton: Premier, they're
very clear that every time you stand up and
talk about basketball, it is further evidence
that you do not understand the issues here.
There are all kinds of youth in this city who
do not play basketball. They need after-school
activities as well. There are all kinds of youth
who want to have an opportunity at a job. There
are all kinds of youth who need to know that
there's going to be an outreach worker there,
that there's going to be a social worker attached
to the school so that the issues that they have
to address -- like poverty, like homelessness,
like having parents who are working three jobs
to pay the rent and put food on the table --
can be understood and addressed.
Premier, you said, "Choose change,"
to people. For all kinds of youth in this city
who are seeing this violence, who are victims
of this violence --
The Speaker: The question
has been asked.
Hon. Mr. McGuinty: The member is essentially
saying that he doesn't like the kind of change
that we're bringing to Ontario, and I accept
that from him, given his partisan standing and
take on all of these things, but we think we're
moving in the right direction when it comes
to attacking both the cause of crime and crime
itself.
The member opposite makes -- and he knows --
a very unfair accusation that somehow we're
entirely committed to and focused on one particular
issue, which happens to be recreating basketball
programs in the province of Ontario. Obviously,
we're doing much, much more than that.
In addition to community use of schools, which
involves many more programs than just basketball,
we're funding pre-apprenticeship projects and
summer job programs. I'm looking, at some point
in time, for support from the member opposite
for our mandatory learning until the age of
18, which will go a long way to engaging and
challenging young people who otherwise become
prey to joining a gang. That may not be something
that meets the standards of the member opposite,
but I think it's something that Ontario --
The Speaker: Thank you. New
question
